Atlas City Project

okay.




1. write textbooks.
2. bathe in the hot pools
3. have sex with the naked babes hanging out there.
4. work in the gardens...
5. design the space ships.


I am a bookworm aspie intellectual carrying a virtual education approximately equal to 20 PhDs.


Do you have any blueprints? or do you still need me to draw them?
what exactly is Atlas city? in you know; draftmans english?


I have been playing your game "Atlas City " since i was 10 years old,
and I am now 38.

No, but lets take this one step at a time.



Yes, i think its highly probable that they could ban you if you even say my name over there.

On the other hand I'm now RBEF "pre research coordinator".





very, diet and nutrition and biochemistry are core sciences we need to study.



No, but it won't bother me to make a trillion dollars either.

yes, at least, i'd like to think so...



please define your terms.





I don't really find myself that interesting. I do find all of the high order problems our civilization faces interesting.

If this is a place that is dedicated to solving those problems I'm especially happy to be here.

So. This is my pass over yonder.

Josh has installed a sketchup downloader/ uploader on your wiki. (at least,
i think its your wiki,...? tell me if i am wrong?

I'm interested in open source collaboration and I design Arcologies.


globalcommunityportal.com/one/doku.php?id=sketchup

You know, this is the core issue of all hopefull movements and the vampire that tends to take them down one after another.

Without a clear and present core metaprocess; people make mistakes.
Yes, even those we give badges to to "moderate" and "admin"

For this reason as an evaluator of different spaces its the core thing
you look at aside from trying to move forward with collaborative energy.

This can be as good as RBEF deciding to give me a wiki or as bad as RBOSE
making their IRC chatroom useless by allowing troll parasites.

The one question i want to know having been around the block is how clear
this is settled.

Am i in a pearls to swine situation? Is this social movement moving forward
or is it an ego cult on cinder blocks?

I need to know in a hurry. lol

now the sad thing is that entropy and social entropy are going to go on
even in the best system. Thats why you have to have a fantastic metaprocess.

Everybody thinks you can just wing it. Its impossible.
Moderators turn into trolls with mod powers around day 100 of the troll
assault.

For instance.

No, you have to really solve everything in a dynamic way and change the minds of some fraction of the people who would be trolls in some other context.

Most trolling is like kicking the tires on a used car. Does it hold up?
Are these people "peace, love and light" inc, or are they just faking it?

that single question is 99 percent of everything that actually gets said by the average newb... right up to about post 200 or so.


so this has caused me to go in for a deep exploration in the research department and Bstorm area over the issue and to try to get ope nsource moderation and metaprocess itself on the table for collaborative design.

(somehow RBEF is down right now but heres a link i can find..)
www.rbefoundation.com/grouptopic.php?f=76&t=2270&p=13089#p13089

sad that you'd lock the thread there. hmm.

Please use the edit feature to your advantage, multiple posts about RBEF is:
1. Unnecessary
2. Frankly issues you have with RBEF or comments regarding them, can stay there.

Welcome to Atlas City.... let us know when you ready to roll up sleeves and dive in, we have committees to join to get things done!

Your interested in helping design the city? Sounds great, I can use some help in the conceptualization committee thread. There are some ideas and drawings being tossed around there.

Hello Prometheuspan and welcome to Atlas Initiative Group!

You have some nice work done and I like seeing people working so hard toward advancing the RBE concept. I hope you plan to use those sharp skills for the good of Atlas too!

globalcommunityportal.com is not our website and it's not our wiki either. Our wiki can be found by clicking the link at the top of our website that says "ACP Wiki" or by following this link: www.atlasinitiativegroup.org/wiki/doku.php



Josh Strobl, I have spoken with the oversight about your website and we need you to please take our logo off your site because of the legal liabilities involved. We formed a non-profit corporation so that we can help protect not only ourselves but also you and our membership during the construction of Atlas and the overall transition from a monetary system. You are welcome to talk about Atlas on your site and you can link to this site but you cannot represent your site as "Atlas Initiative Group". It is in our best interest and yours to work together not against one another.

I appreciate your eagerness to be a leader in Atlas but this is not about being in a leader position, it's about doing. Just do something good and be the example not the derogation. You have much to learn and all these people here including myself will help you, just ask. But it is not going to help your position to just take and do without working with everyone.

I look forward to more productive relationships with everyone involved.

Rob

I'm sorry. Josh is involved at RBEF and I got confused with the two wikis.

I'm very interested in drawing and sharing models and designing a city.

what I need from you guys is explicit instructions on what you want me to draw.

Jinx wrote:

I didn't represent my site as Atlas Initiative Group. I point to Atlas Initiative Group, I don't know where you are getting your ideas but its off. Secondly, I don't have the damn logo on my site, I have the Atlas Linux OS logo, and that isn't going anywhere.

I'm not even going to say anything about that in fear of completely exploding.

I'm not representing Atlas nor am I going to take any of your assumptions into consideration. I didn't say my wiki was your wiki, I said my wiki is where I host my stuff. There isn't anything on my site claiming I'm you and I don't have your "logo" on my site. I have a banner saying "Powered by Atlas Linux OS", simply to promote the project I am working on. Prometheus merely got confused because I directed him to my wiki for a uploading project I've been working on for RBEF. Also, how exactly am I supposed to be a team player (especially in AOSDT's case) when I am either the only one or the only one seemingly doing something? Hell, all I want is input on projects, is that too hard to ask for?

Prometheus, keep doing good work on the conceptualizations, feel free to take advantage of the Atlas City area I'm making on the Sketchup file uploader this afternoon! I'll be working on an auto folder and page creator for you soon also That should be done over the weekend.

i have determined that waiting for your input is not at this time advisable and have reviewed all of the pertinent design considerations and come up with
a rough outline.

Please feel free to add to it.

please don't be mad at each other over wiki confusion.

please take any further discussion of that issue some place else.

-------------

Asiom Theme Park

1. Asiom Theme park is a demonstration miniature self sufficient city, done in the style of a tall building village.
2. The minimum height of any building in Asiom theme park is 7 stories. The maximum Height is 24.
3. Asiom theme park is a demonstration eco city installation, functioning for buildings as the equivalent of;
A; Large scale, supersize condominimum style Hotels; population (employees) 100, And 100 apartment units per installation building cell, for
repetitions out to 10 thousand inhabitants.
B; Geothermal Power Station
C; Geothermal Reservoir Artificial Lakes and Pools; Hot water Theme Park (to be detailed below)
D; Greenhouses per residential installation sufficient to feed the inhabitants of each installation.
E; Office Building(s)
F; School(s) (for the children of the residents or for the children of visiting guests, and for the adult guests,
thus, the lions share of the employees.)

G; Janitorial Building (The next largest Lions share of Employees)
H; Main Entrance Building
I; Mens/Womens/Both Lockers Building(s)
j; Track Coliseum
K; Sports Coliseum
L; Pool Coliseum
m; Water Works Port
N; Geothermal Steam Gymn(s)
0; Stonehenge Re-Creation
P; Open Quarry Rock Pit Mine
R; Dirt and Ore Processing Plant
S; Extrusion Facility
T; Machine Shop
U; Macroworks Conveyor Belt and Robot Arm Construction Building
v; Cable Cars Main Port Building
W; Cable cars Station Building
X; Security Tower
Y; Security Wall
Z; Area Wall

AA; Hospital
BB; Construction Vehicles And systems Garage
CC; Police Station
DD; Jail
EE; Restaurant(s)
FF; Construction Crane
GG; Crane Rail




4. The Geothermal power system aside from providing for the energy needs of the park and then later the city allows for and even
suggests a large reservoir of water, being exchanged slowly through the system. This in turn brings up aquaculture and irrigation
as well as heating and for some installation sites plant protection from the elements thus green houses.

5. Thus in all cases the energy potential to be maximized here is what can be done with a large scale geothermal power station.
The answer to that is that you can potentially heat a very large amount of water to very comfortable temperatures and keep it heated
indefinitely. Now what to do with hot water? obviously, you'd bathe in it. There are hot tub spas and hot springs and hot etc resorts
all over. Harbin Hot Springs comes to mind. Well, what if you go out into the middle of nowhere, install a closed system zero leak water
table, never lose any water except from evaporation, and cycle hot water via geothermal heat at 110 degrees all over the place so that its
on tap for bathing? You can even heat a whole greenhouse that way by having the right size pool in the center of it.

6. The Theme park will actually grow by building slowly until it reaches climax energy potential and is ready to begin work on the City.

7. Initially there will be a gust hotel and an employee hotel and this will then expand over time, well before 100 employees are serving 10
thousand persons another four or ten employee housing complexes will be opened up.

8. As critical mass is achieved the theme park goes out of business as such and spends the capital it earned for 40 years collecting
as a theme park to actually reverse the capital situation. It then hires a construction crew to inhabit the theme park and begins to work
on the city.
(And long time residents can become construction workers if they wish.)

9. Aside from buldings, Asiom City will also build its own boats, which will foat up and down the artificial rivers created to make the city pleasant
and do irrigation and etc.
What should be considered here is a hot water distribution network to assorted pools of water, many of which will only end up being "Hot" near the
hot water entrance. (Cooling from 110 down to 80 degrees is considered the standard, and cold water inside of Asiom Theme Park should be hard to find except on
tap.

10. So a hot water plumbing water distribution network will distribute hot water to a surface boat water distribution network.. lol.
This will take the form of a series of motes connected by radial lines.

11. We want this place to be fully modern in all ways to the extent that it is transparently the next evolutionary step for a city.





Asiom City

1. Asiom City is a full scale implementation of a truly modern and truly modern scale sized city, done in the style of a dense metropolitan Tower Cluster.
2. While Asiom city will continue to use articifical rivers to float large transportation, the water won'tbe heated outside of the theme Park.
3. Asiom city buildings will be a minimum of 24 stories tall, with most buildings expected to rise as high as 200 stories.
4. These high rise buildings will be large based buildings and give new meaning to the word "Castle" Instead of being a single super tower rising
into the sky, we are going to connect sky scrapers together.
5. Asiom City will have the same list of buildings as used for the the them park but these buildings will be much much larger now.
6. For instance, each apartment building will now have say 1000 or 10 thousand cells, .... for repetitions out to one billion inhabitants.
7.

Thu 14 Aug, 2008 17:04
Post subject: Things we are designing Post 1. A new social protocol for relating as problem solving collaborators.
2. A BBS.
3. A Wiki
4. A format and structure for the BBS. IE my design philosophy for the board architecture.
5. Protocol standardizations for basic research, compilation, and problem solving.
6. A problem solving process
7. Presentations of solutions to problems
8. Textbooks
9. New total Laws
10 Omnipedia- as a futurist information resource.

A few thoughts about the BBS. We have more or less a series of forums gradiating in subject
along the assumed path of a new person whos checking us out. We start with announcements, and move through the process of letting people get what we are doing and present themselves with two
main forums. Then we get into the issues. then the sciences, which are relevant to different issues,
and then back to socializing, making connections, networking, working together, and so forth.
I'm really very proud of my BBS design and design philosophy. But still i'm open to new ideas.

The protocol standardizations for basic think tank functions will have to be created as we go. It
would be a bit stretched to try to start from where we are right now. Mostly tho i expect to use
informal levels of communication which then feed into more formal communication circuits and processes. Very basic systems theory stuff more or less makes the choices there. The design philosophy has to be what works and what works is pretty square. Lots of ground to cover there tho
and as sure as i am that i know enough to do it, I'm equally sure that other people could have some
good input there.

The problem solving process. both kind of self evident and very basic and at the same time apparently
much too complicated for most people to implement. Real problem solving process assumes ignorance
and moves to self education. The problem with most people is that they don't know what they don't know and assume that they know enough, usually they don't. Once you assume the reverse as a habit- that you can't possibly know enough without doing a lot of research, the problem solving process is pretty downhill from there. you find enough facts, you string them all together, and the solution pops out at you.

In many ways i am an awesome designer if we assume i am just designing essentially a process circuit
which humans will then operate inside of. I'm a sucky designer to make that frilly, easy, or user friendly, so i assume that good help with design philosophy is probably in order.

As far as making presentations of given solutions to problems goes, thats the real one. Right now we don't have any presentations as such. Waiting for the photo gallery to get linked to. lol.

When it does of course then presentation can start as i post images and drawings and snapshots of models to illustrate the ideas. All of that has to get integrated into a presentation. The base presentation should be no more than half an hour long. The depth presentation no less than 2 hours long. Thats a lot to think about for 26 issues and 18 sciences.

Then theres the design philosophy for the textbooks- but right now thats a long way off.

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Post subject: Geothermal Power Post en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_power

www.geothermal.marin.org/pwrheat.html

www1.eere.energy.gov/geothermal/powerplants.html

www.nrel.gov/learning/re_geothermal.html

www.alternative-energy-news.info ... y/heating/

www.eia.doe.gov/kids/energyfacts ... ermal.html
_________________
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The opposite of bravery is not cowardice but conformity.
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Where is it written that all of our dreams must be small ones? -B5-
"Theres a place out beyond right and wrong; I'll meet you there" RUMI
**== (%) = :angelic-blueglow: :angelic-cyan: :angelic-flying: :angelic-green: :angelic-yellow: :happy-sunny: :happy-sunshine: :violence-swords: :violence-bowandarrow:

The greatest achievement is selflessness. The greatest worth is self-mastery. The greatest quality is seeking to serve others. The greatest precept is continual awareness. The greatest medicine is the emptiness of everything. The greatest action is not conforming with the worlds ways. The greatest magic is transmuting the passions. The greatest generosity is non-attachment. The greatest goodness is a peaceful mind. The greatest patience is humility. The greatest effort is not concerned with results. The greatest meditation is a mind that lets go. The greatest wisdom is seeing through appearances. - Atisha

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Mon 23 Jun, 2008 05:48
Post subject: Re: Geothermal Power Post www.ecofriend.org/entry/geotherm ... ectricity/

thefraserdomain.typepad.com/ener ... teste.html

www.gordonmoyes.com/2007/01/10/c ... n-nuclear/

www.answers.com/topic/geothermal ... technology

www.greentechmedia.com/articles/ ... r-918.html

www.technologyreview.com/Energy/17236/

solveclimate.com/blog/20080227/g ... dant-cheap

www.altenergystocks.com/archives ... power.html

peakenergy.blogspot.com/2008/05/ ... power.html

seekingalpha.com/article/76811-g ... ources-101

www.smu.edu/geothermal/2004NAMap/2004NAmap.htm

www1.eere.energy.gov/geothermal/geomap.html

geoheat.oit.edu/images/usmap1.gif

pesn.com/2007/01/22/9500449_MIT_ ... 4_hj70.jpg

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... map_US.png

thefraserdomain.typepad.com/ener ... es_map.gif

www.utpb.edu/ceed/renewableenerg ... rmal_1.jpg

images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... l%26sa%3DN

New Tectonic Source of Geothermal Energy?

volcan42.jpg Geochemists from the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory and Arizona State University have discovered a new tool for identifying potential geothermal energy resources. The discovery came from comparing helium isotopes in samples gathered from wells, springs, and vents across the northern Basin and Range of western North America. High helium ratios are common in volcanic regions. When the investigators found high ratios in places far from volcanism, they knew that hot fluids must be permeating Earth's inner layers by other means. The samples collected on the surface gave the researchers a window into the structure of the rocks far below, with no need to drill.

"A good geothermal energy source has three basic requirements: a high thermal gradient—which means accessible hot rock—plus a rechargeable reservoir fluid, usually water, and finally, deep permeable pathways for the fluid to circulate through the hot rock," says Mack Kennedy. "We believe we have found a way to map and quantify zones of permeability deep in the lower crust that result not from volcanic activity but from tectonic activity, the movement of pieces of the Earth's crust."

Geothermal is considered by many to be the best renewable energy source besides solar. Accessible geothermal energy in the United States, excluding Alaska and Hawaii, is estimated at 90 quadrillion kilowatt-hours, 3,000 times more than the country's total annual energy consumption. Determining helium ratios from surface measurements is a practical way to locate promising sources.

Julia Whitty is Mother Jones' environmental correspondent. You can read from her new book, The Fragile Edge, and other writings, here.
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The opposite of bravery is not cowardice but conformity.
Image
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Where is it written that all of our dreams must be small ones? -B5-
"Theres a place out beyond right and wrong; I'll meet you there" RUMI
**== (%) = :angelic-blueglow: :angelic-cyan: :angelic-flying: :angelic-green: :angelic-yellow: :happy-sunny: :happy-sunshine: :violence-swords: :violence-bowandarrow:

The greatest achievement is selflessness. The greatest worth is self-mastery. The greatest quality is seeking to serve others. The greatest precept is continual awareness. The greatest medicine is the emptiness of everything. The greatest action is not conforming with the worlds ways. The greatest magic is transmuting the passions. The greatest generosity is non-attachment. The greatest goodness is a peaceful mind. The greatest patience is humility. The greatest effort is not concerned with results. The greatest meditation is a mind that lets go. The greatest wisdom is seeing through appearances. - Atisha

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Mon 23 Jun, 2008 09:27
Post subject: Re: Geothermal Power Post PP:
In a posting this a.m., i think?, you referred to an article which included this comment:

[i]On the biggest question facing humanity, human caused global warming, both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are ignoring the urgent proposals of global warming experts and instead put forward conservative proposals of carbon credit trading for big corporations and proposals for so-called “cleanerâ€

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Mon 23 Jun, 2008 09:57
Post subject: Re: Geothermal Power Post www.nytimes.com/2008/06/22/opini ... edman.html


June 22, 2008
Op-Ed Columnist
Mr. Bush, Lead or Leave
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN

Two years ago, President Bush declared that America was “addicted to oil,â€

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Mon 23 Jun, 2008 10:27
Post subject: Re: Geothermal Power Post PP:
In a posting this a.m., i think?, you referred to an article which included this comment:
[color=#a500ff]
On the biggest question facing humanity, human caused global warming, both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are ignoring the urgent proposals of global warming experts and instead put forward conservative proposals of carbon credit trading for big corporations and proposals for so-called “cleanerâ€
_________________
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The opposite of bravery is not cowardice but conformity.
Image
Image
Where is it written that all of our dreams must be small ones? -B5-
"Theres a place out beyond right and wrong; I'll meet you there" RUMI
**== (%) = :angelic-blueglow: :angelic-cyan: :angelic-flying: :angelic-green: :angelic-yellow: :happy-sunny: :happy-sunshine: :violence-swords: :violence-bowandarrow:

The greatest achievement is selflessness. The greatest worth is self-mastery. The greatest quality is seeking to serve others. The greatest precept is continual awareness. The greatest medicine is the emptiness of everything. The greatest action is not conforming with the worlds ways. The greatest magic is transmuting the passions. The greatest generosity is non-attachment. The greatest goodness is a peaceful mind. The greatest patience is humility. The greatest effort is not concerned with results. The greatest meditation is a mind that lets go. The greatest wisdom is seeing through appearances. - Atisha

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Mon 23 Jun, 2008 11:34
Post subject: world status of geothermal use Post geoheat.oit.edu/pdf/tp107.pdf

WORLD STATUS OF GEOTHERMAL ENERGY USE
OVERVIEW 1995-1999
John W. Lund
Geo-Heat Center, Oregon Institute of Technology, Klamath Falls, OR
1. INTRODUCTION
Early humans probably used geothermal water that occurred in
natural pools and hot springs for cooking, bathing and to keep
warm. We have archeological evidence that the Indians of the
Americas occupied sites around these geothermal resources for
over 10,000 years to recuperated from battle and take refuge.
Many of their oral legends describe these places and other
volcanic phenomena. Recorded history shows uses by Romans,
Japanese, Turks, Icelanders, Central Europeans and the Maori
of New Zealand for bathing, cooking and space heating. Baths
in the Roman Empire, the middle kingdom of the Chinese, and
the Turkish baths of the Ottomans were some of the early uses
of balneology; where, body health, hygiene and discussions
were the social custom of the day. This custom has been
extended to geothermal spas in Japan, Germany, Iceland,
countries of the former Austro-Hungarian empire, the Americas
and New Zealand.
Other early uses included the geothermal water at Huaqingchi
Hot Spring in China; where, a bathing and treatment facility
was built in the Qin Dynasty (over 2,000 years ago), and a hot
spring at Ziaotangshan near Beijing used for recreation for
about 800 years by the royal family, and other high-ranking
officials in the Ming and Qing Dynasties. Early industrial
applications include chemical extraction from the natural
manifestations of steam, pools and mineral deposits in the
Larderello region of Italy. Serious industrial activity began
only after the discovery of boric acid in the hot pools in 1777.
The first attempt at using these minerals was made in 1810,
and nine factories were built between 1816 and 1835. A
flourishing chemical industry was in operation by the early
1900's. At Chaudes-Aigues in the heart of France, the world’s
first geothermal district heating system was started in the 14th
century and is still going strong.
As described above, we know that there have been many
countries where geothermal has been used in the past, but most
of this utilization has not been documented. However, a recent
publication (1999): Stories from a Heated Earth - Our
Geothermal Heritage (edited by R. Cataldi, S. Hodgson and J.
Lund) describes many of these early uses prior to the industrial
revolution. This publication covers more than 25 countries
with historical information taken from the works of
archaeologists, historians, geographers, anthropologists,
scientists and engineers. Thus, we now have in a single
reference documenting the early uses of geothermal energy --
from hot spring bathing to the use of geothermal material such
as obsidian and tuff, along with the legends and myths
associated with fumaroles, hot springs and volcanic eruption.
These uses continues today with electric power generation, and
space heating and cooling.
2. DEVELOPMENTS IN THE 20TH CENTURY
2.1 Electric Power Generation
The first use of geothermal energy for electric power production
started in Italy with experimental work by Prince Gionori Conti
between 1904 and 1905. The first power plant (250 kWe) was
commissioned in 1913 at Larderello. These developments were
followed by Wairakai, New Zealand in 1958; an experimental
plant at Pathe, Mexico in 1959; and at The Geysers in the
United States in 1960. The first international geothermal
meeting to report on geothermal utilization was the UN
Conference on New Sources of Energy held in Rome in 1961
where developments in Italy, New Zealand, USA and Iceland
were discussed (Smith, 1964). At that time, Iceland was
proposing a plant at Hveragerdi and the experimental
installation at Pathe was not mentioned. This was followed by
the UN Symposium on the Development and Utilization of
Geothermal Resources at Pisa in 1970 (Facca, 1970). Based on
these reports and subsequent reports presented at the 2nd UN
Symposium on the Development and Use of Geothermal
Resources at San Francisco in 1975 (Armstead, 1975a), the
GRC Annual meetings (1981, 1985 and 1990) (DiPippo, 1981
and 1985; Huttrer, 1990), and at the World Geothermal
Congress in Florence in 1995 (Huttrer, 1995), along with the
current report by Huttrer (2000) the development of geothermal
electric power is presented in Table 1.
Table 1. Worldwide Development of Geothermal Electric
Power
Year Installed Energy Number Participants of Countries
MWe GWh/yr
1940 130 1 Italy
1950 293 1 Italy
1960 386 2,600 est. 4 + NZ, Mexico, & USA
1970 678 5,000 est 6 + Japan & USSR
1975 1,310 8 + Iceland & El Salvador
1980 2,110 14 + C h i n a , I n d o n e s i a ,
Kenya, Turkey,
Philippines, & Portugal
1985 4,764 17 + Greece, France &
Nicaragua
1990 5,832 19 + Thailand, Argentina, &
Australia - Greece
1995 6,797 20 + Costa Rica
2000 7,974 49,261 21 + Guatemala & Ethiopia
- Argentina
Unfortunately, no estimates were made of the energy produced
during the period 1975 to 1995. There also appears to be slight
differences in the installed MWe numbers between various
authors.
The growth rate for installed electric capacity started slowly at
5.6% annually from 1940 to 1960, depressed by World War II
and the destruction of the Italian fields at the end of the war.
From 1960 to 1970, the rate increased slightly to 5.8%
annually, and then picked up dramatically from 1970 to 1980
at 12.0%, and 1980 to 1990 at 10.7% - the growth years for
geothermal energy. From 1990, the rate has dropped to 3.2%
per year as influenced by the slowdown in the world economy,
especially in southeast Asia, and the availability of cheap fossil
fuels. The growth rate over the past 30 years has averaged
8.6% compounded annually.
The 1961 Rome Conference reported the following figures on
geothermal electrical costs (Smith, 1964):
Geothermal Field Installed cost/ Energy cost/kWh
kW (net output)
The Geysers US$152 US$0.0025
Wairakei US$227 US$0.0046
Larderello US$138 US$0.0012
Iceland (proposed) US$364 US$0.0079
This compares at that time with US$117 per installed kW and
US$0.0012 per kWh of net output for two 150 MW units using
“traditional fuels.â€
_________________
Image

Image
The opposite of bravery is not cowardice but conformity.
Image
Image
Where is it written that all of our dreams must be small ones? -B5-
"Theres a place out beyond right and wrong; I'll meet you there" RUMI
**== (%) = :angelic-blueglow: :angelic-cyan: :angelic-flying: :angelic-green: :angelic-yellow: :happy-sunny: :happy-sunshine: :violence-swords: :violence-bowandarrow:

The greatest achievement is selflessness. The greatest worth is self-mastery. The greatest quality is seeking to serve others. The greatest precept is continual awareness. The greatest medicine is the emptiness of everything. The greatest action is not conforming with the worlds ways. The greatest magic is transmuting the passions. The greatest generosity is non-attachment. The greatest goodness is a peaceful mind. The greatest patience is humility. The greatest effort is not concerned with results. The greatest meditation is a mind that lets go. The greatest wisdom is seeing through appearances. - Atisha

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Mon 23 Jun, 2008 12:02
Post subject: Re: Geothermal Power Post So take this study and multiply it by 15 for a 15 billion dollar investment.
25 million homes ? Now its 300 million homes (only 5x3 or 15 times).
300 million cars. Another multiple of say 3, so now we are at just 60 billion dollars.





Published on Monday, January 22, 2007 by Reuters
US Urged to Ramp up Geothermal Power
by Jason Szep


Mining heat stored in rocks in the Earth's crust could meet a growing portion of U.S. electricity demand, replacing aging nuclear and coal plants with an environmentally friendly alternative, researchers say.

A Massachusetts Institute of Technology study said the mining of thermal energy could be done on a far larger scale than conventionally known, reducing spiraling oil import bills and strengthening U.S. energy security.

"This is a big resource that is perhaps undervalued by people who are thinking of options for the country," said Jefferson Tester, an MIT chemical engineering professor who led the 15-month study released on Monday.

"We're running out of time here with our existing fleet of nuclear reactors and all the coal-fired plants that we have that are exceeding emission guidelines," he added.

Geothermal power -- generated from drilling wells that allow hot water or steam to power turbines -- is already on the rise globally as expensive oil and gas make it increasingly competitive despite high capital costs.

Top energy consumer the United States is leading the way, with 61 projects in the works to double its geothermal capacity to more than 5,000 megawatts, according to the Geothermal Energy Association, a trade group.

MIT's study, described by the researchers as the most far-reaching on the subject in 30 years, said the United States as a first step could achieve capacity of 100,000 megawatts - enough to supply about 25 million homes -- in 50 years at an eventual cost of just $40 million a year.

That would represent about 6 percent of the current U.S. electricity supply. Coal is now the leading source of U.S. electric power, supplying 49.7 percent.

"It wouldn't take a lot of money. It's not like this requires billions of dollars to accomplish," said Tester, who helped develop thermal energy technology in the 1970s.

The proposed program would require a combined public and private investment of $800 million to $1 billion in the first 15 years -- about the same money needed to build one new clean-coal power plant, the study said.

'HEAT-EXCHANGER'

The study, sponsored by the U.S. Department of Energy, said drilling several wells down to hot rock and then connecting them to a region of fractured rock through which water can flow creates a "heat-exchanger."

That produces large amounts of hot water or steam to run electric generators on the Earth's surface.

"Unlike conventional fossil-fuel power plants that burn coal, natural gas or oil, no fuel would be required. Unlike wind and solar systems, a geothermal plant works night and day, offering a non-interruptible source of electric power," it said.

Various barriers must be overcome.

Along with high capital costs for land and deep drilling, geothermal faces environmental hurdles common to new fossil- fuel projects. But unlike fossil fuels, of which there is a finite supply, thermal energy is renewable.

The heat and steam, generated in many countries at the point where tectonic plates collide, is nonpolluting.

"It's the sub-surface engineering where the risk is and we think the risk has been greatly reduced because of the knowledge of the field work in Europe and in Australia right now," said Tester.

"I don't want to see us be in a situation where we are importing a big fraction of our natural gas just to generate power, and I think that's the direction we are headed in if we don't start to produce some alternatives," he added.

© Reuters 2007
www.commondreams.org/headlines07/0122-01.htm
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Mon 23 Jun, 2008 12:10
Post subject: Re: Geothermal Power Post Hot New Study: Earth's Heat Can Power Our Future

By Charles Q. Choi, Special to LiveScience

posted: 22 January 2007 12:13 pm ET
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The extraordinary amount of heat seething below Earth's hard rocky crust could help supply the United States with a significant fraction of the electricity it will need in the future, probably at competitive prices and with minimal environmental impact, scientists now claim.

An 18-member panel led by MIT has prepared the first study in some 30 years to take a new look at the largely ignored area of geothermal energy.

Geothermal plants essentially mine heat by using wells at times a mile or more deep. These wells tap into hot rock and connect them with flowing water, producing large amounts of steam and super-hot water that can drive turbines and run electricity generators at the surface.

Unlike conventional power plants that burn coal, natural gas or oil, no fuel is required. And unlike solar power, a geothermal plant draws energy night and day.

Geothermal research was very active in the 1970s and early 1980s. As oil prices declined in the mid-1980s, enthusiasm for alternative energy sources waned and funding for research on geothermal and other renewable energy was greatly reduced, making it difficult for the technology to advance.

"Now that energy concerns have resurfaced, an opportunity exists for the U.S. to pursue the enhanced geothermal system option aggressively to meet long-term national needs," said panel head Jefferson Tester, a chemical engineer at MIT.

Fossil fuels such as coal, oil and natural gas are increasingly expensive and dump carbon dioxide and other pollutants into the atmosphere. Furthermore, oil and gas imports from foreign sources are not necessarily secure in the world's shifting political climate.

The United States is the world's biggest producer of geothermal energy. Nafi Toksöz, a geophysicist at MIT, noted that the electricity produced annually by geothermal plants now in use in California, Hawaii, Utah and Nevada is comparable to that produced by solar and wind power combined.

However, existing U.S. plants are concentrated mostly at isolated regions in the West. There, hot rocks are closer to the surface, requiring less drilling and thus lowering costs. Even then, drilling must reach depths of 5,000 feet or more in the West, and much deeper in the eastern United States.

Still, the panel now estimates geothermal power could meet roughly 10 percent of U.S. electricity needs by 2050. Their new study also finds the environmental impacts of geothermal development are markedly lower than conventional fossil fuel and nuclear power plants.

Tester and his colleagues emphasize that federally funded engineering research and development is still needed to lower risks and encourage investment by early adopters. The report also noted that meeting water requirements for geothermal plants may be an issue, particularly in arid regions. In addition, the potential for any seismic risks needs to be carefully monitored and managed.

The Earth’s radius is about 4,000 miles (6,400 kilometers). The main layers of its interior are in descending order: crust, mantle and core.

The crust thickness averages about 18 miles (30 kilometers) under the continents, but is only about 3 miles (5 kilometers) under the oceans. It is light and brittle and can break. In fact it's fractured into more than a dozen major plates and several minor ones. It is where most earthquakes originate.

The mantle is more flexible – it flows instead of fractures. It extends down to about 1,800 miles (2,900 kilometers) below the surface.

The core consists of a solid inner core and a fluid outer core. The fluid contains iron, which, as it moves, generates the Earth’s magnetic field. The crust and upper mantle form the lithosphere, which is broken up into several plates that float on top of the hot molten mantle below.

SOURCE: LiveScience reporting

www.livescience.com/environment/ ... ermal.html
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**== (%) = :angelic-blueglow: :angelic-cyan: :angelic-flying: :angelic-green: :angelic-yellow: :happy-sunny: :happy-sunshine: :violence-swords: :violence-bowandarrow:

The greatest achievement is selflessness. The greatest worth is self-mastery. The greatest quality is seeking to serve others. The greatest precept is continual awareness. The greatest medicine is the emptiness of everything. The greatest action is not conforming with the worlds ways. The greatest magic is transmuting the passions. The greatest generosity is non-attachment. The greatest goodness is a peaceful mind. The greatest patience is humility. The greatest effort is not concerned with results. The greatest meditation is a mind that lets go. The greatest wisdom is seeing through appearances. - Atisha

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Post subject: Re: Geothermal Power Post Even then, drilling must reach depths of 5,000 feet or more in the West, and much deeper in the eastern United States.

The thing about geology is that its all uneven. On average, yeah, you have to go a mile or two or three deep. But just like with oil, theres hot spots.
They are generally small little areas, but there are enough such small little areas within 100 or 200 meters of the surface that those sites alone could meet all of our energy needs.

Geologic maps of assorted states already reveal many hot spots and with exploration, many more could be found.

And, even if this weere not true, it is already standard operating procedure to drill deeper than 3 miles for oil.
So its not like its an issue, considering that a geothermal power station will in its lifespan yield millions of times more energy than any oil well.