Atlas City Project

Hi all. I am just curious of the idea and would like to ask/question more

What do you do and/or would like to do in Atlas City?
I have many skills ranging from manual labor to research, managerial experience, and resource management

What education do you have or would like to acquire?
everything. i want to learn everything i can

Are you interested in living in Atlas City?
I have no clue. it depends on what i learn in my research

Do you have skills to help build Atlas City?
yes

Have you decided what committee you would like to join?
no

Have you studied Resource Based Economies or Venus Project, what are you thoughts or concerns?

I think the idea is definitely ideological, and sounds very good on paper. Whether or not it can exist in practice remains to be seen. My biggest concern is about incentives. I can see average people doing their jobs to make the community function, but what about innovation? is their any plan future improvements and if so, how will these things be financed and/or gotten off the ground? If i have a great idea for atlas, how will my idea be able to become a reality. What incentives do people have to go after giant leaps of innovation and where do the resources used to provide this innovation come from?

How important do you think health and diet is in Atlas City?

health and diet are important everywhere. atlas city may set itself up to promote these things better. this is a key problem all over the world, not just for malnourished people in third world countries or those who are hungry
Are you motivated by money, or integrity, love, purpose and social contribution?

all of the above. my goal in life is to find meaningful work that makes a difference. I have done things and will do things for money as well. All I expect is a reasonable return for my efforts, it does not necessarily have to be money.

Tell us anything else about yourself you would like?

I am skeptical yet inquisitive by nature. I do believe that we as humans still operate with a primitive mind. I think that even if each person is given everything they need to be happy they will still find a reason to fight. I am curious to see how this is planned for in atlas city

Regarding incentives for innovation, anyone who needs motivation to do anything probably won't do a very good job as they don't really care about what they are doing, they are just in it for the money.
People who are motivated because they are interested in a subject are more likely to make the scientific and engineering advances that will be needed in future.
Technological advances in history have been made by a very small number of people compared to the population of the country/planet.
A global Venus Project would only need a few hundred people working on new or improving technology and blue skies research, they will do the work because they want to, not for any "incentive".

Hello jrg24! Welcome to the Atlas City Project.

You are asking very big questions with many many ties to different influences.




Incentives - I don't get paid to do anything for Atlas and yet here I am. I want nothing in return and neither do the people involved. Some of us work much harder for Atlas than we do at a normal job. At the end of the day it comes down to the desire to help your fellow man.
I want to spend my entire life learning and building. If my basic needs were taken care of I could do that... and I would! Atlas is made of people who feel that way. I would bet my top dollar (pun intended) that under the psychological aberrancies inflicted on the average person in the monetary system from birth, there is a good hearted person who only wants to live, learn about life and love their family. So we teach. We educate the people about how sick we are as a society and that it's an illness that HAS A CURE! We disembark the psychological barriers put in place by the corrupt monetary system and return to our humanity.
"Incentive" is in your mind and the concept is a very abstract one at that. It can be easily redefined much like the government redefines every dastardly deed it gets caught doing. People know deep down inside that hurting others is wrong and that helping each other is right. That's where incentive comes from.
Innovation is only a result of personal advancement/achievement in an area of study, ergo innovation is unavoidable.

Improvements - Of course there will be improvements. We won't just drop everything and walk away, that wouldn't make any sense. Atlas will grow and encourage the reproduction of other cities similar to Atlas by providing guidance, people and resources.

Financing - each step will have to be individually financed and we will have to get creative. Much like anything else in the monetary system we will be bound by laws and money until the monetary system collapses or becomes irrelevant.

If you have ideas that you want to add then post them on the forums for discussion. Once ideas have been broken down, if it is a good enough idea, it will be added to our wiki and used in the construction of Atlas. If you want some kind of incentive beyond "doing good for your fellow man" for your good idea, then you are in the wrong place.

Hope this helps.

Rob

thanks for the replys. I do agree that major leaps in innovation happen because people want to explore certain ideas and question certain truths. I certainly think that Einstein accomplished what he did because he had a deep love and fixation on the study of physics. I will concede that point. I guess part of the whole idea is that we aren't going to have ipods anymore. We will reach a level of sufficient technology and leave it at that (this still makes me wonder where space exploration fits into this just in case an asteroid heads our way.

As far as building the city, I understand that private funds will begin the process of the city. when I was talking about financing innovation, I was referring to maintenance and creation of future innovation especially when the movement is just starting out and the city is being inhabited. Rare elements like neodymium magnets used in many electronics today are indeed rare and most of the remaining in nature exist in china. If china isn't on board with the program, and we need the magnets for some reason, how will we get those magnets? I know with the advent of solid state drives and the like that the use of these magnets will dwindle as the technology proliferates, but until that point, how do we get it if residents have already embraced a resource based economy? We could create excess food, or license some technology we have created, but doesn't that go against the point of a resource based economy? How will we trade to get the things we need that aren't available locally from people who are not into RBE?

The other concern that I am not sure if I had addressed it in my first post is about the animal nature of people. Greed envy, etc. I do believe that a resource based economy is an answer to the problems of the world, but what about when there is not enough of something, even if just for a temporary amount of time for everyone who wants it to have? What if some social function is happening and for some reason some guy just has to be the first to get there and pushes and shoves through people. People have issues, and unless we can invent one of those star Trek things that create what you want on demand greed and jealousy will exist in the culture and can cause problems. What about adultery? Crimes of passion? mental illness? Public intoxication? Drug use? How will these things be addressed in a society with no actual rule of law. And if there is some enforcement of rules inside the system, what about corruption of these individuals who enforce these laws if for no other reason than power? Doesn't the very fact that someone can tell you what you can and can not do create a sense of imbalance and as if someone else ultimately has control?

I am playing devils advocate here, but I think it is important to do so. I had a friend tell me last night that it is what I am best at. I am not trying to tear down anything that is being said, just making sure that it is being looked at from all angles. I want this to work just as much as anyone else. I may actually know what it means to feel truly at peace if it ever come to pass.

One last thing and I will be done. Jinx said that he works for Atlas very hard and does not get paid. I to feel like he does that if all of my basic needs are met and a quality of life can be created that is comfortable and free of fear of being destitute or knowing how I am going to pay for a doctor (and not wait in line 8 hours to see him) if I need one and do not have to stand in a bread line for my daily rations, I would be there in a second. I already know where I would work in the city..In the agriculture area, hopefully maintaining a permaculture system. But what about those who don't feel that way? Will they be turned away from the city even if it may mean death outside of it? And if they are allowed in, and do not respect it as much as Jinx and myself might, feelings of inequity and lack of respect in some way will surely follow. This is just something to consider. I have other things I think about as well, but I am sure I will get to them at some point down the road.

All your questions concerning human nature/nurture are discussed regularly and exhaustively on the global zeitgeist forum, you will find your answers here TheZeitgeistmovement

Atlas city is a transitional city meaning it will be far from perfect, but it will evolve into what we make it, there will be trade at first, there will be shortages, there will be queues.
People are currently conditioned to be what the monetary system requires them to be, ruthless, selfish, inconsiderate, poorly educated slaves to work for the benefit of the super-rich.
Environmental destruction must make us change our attitudes to just about everything, people will receive a kinder, more compassionate education which will eliminate most of your concerns, there will be crime, but it will be drastically reduced from current levels, the transgressors will receive treatment instead of punishment in the expectation that it will be more effective at preventing future re-offending, but as I said, it will not be perfect until "we get it right".

The terminally lazy will be tolerated when the city is capable of supporting them, but I do not think it will be a big problem, inactivity will lead to poor health and reduced life expectancy, they will be told this and it is then their choice, evolution will weed them out of the gene-pool, please note, I am not as heartless as this paragraph suggests.

jrg24,
you make some valid points. yes there are some things which will be more difficult for us to acquire then others. Remember that we will have a purchasing power for the city as a whole, so if these chips were needed, and available, we could still acquire them. if they were too difficult to get, then people outside the city would not be using them either and hopefully a reliable alternative would germinate.

Jacque Fresco has done extensive writings about the human nature aspect of this idea on his website, www.thevenusproject.com
Also, Peter Joseph spent most of his new film, Zeitgeist: Moving Forward discussing the topics of human nature.

These topics are honestly out of my league to even begin discussing, I just thought I would push you more in that direction for more answers to your questions.

Great discussion though keep it up

I am sorry everyone, but I will have to leave this community now. The moment I read that laziness will be tolerated I decided to withdraw from this. All I can say is that if you tolerate laziness, your city will fail. why do you think America is hurting so bad now? Because of laziness. Sure, wall street and the government did their part to put these events in motion, but everyone is responsible. everyone wanted something for free. No one took the time to actually visualize what is TRULY in their best interest (most do not even know what is truly in their best interest now. Even less realize how what is best for them is best for society). No one took action to mitigate the problem. Everyone expected others to provide for them and in the end they ended up not providing for anyone. Even in the absence of money, laziness will cause the same thing in atlas city, even if it is just a more whimsical approach to work like "it's a nice day outside so I am not going to work today." This is a from of greed and selfishness, that everyone will suffer. Maybe it would lead to a class of serfdom, maybe not, but everyone will suffer because of it.

I doubt there are many Ayn Rand fans on here, but I suggest everyone take the time to read the link I list below. It is a speech made in the novel "Atlas Shrugged." I hope you can see how this can apply even inside a society without money.
amberandchaos.com/?page_id=106

My last word of advice is this: Remain as individuals. Do not grow into some kind of collective conscious that strips away your individuality. Always stand for something, and do not bend to the will of society for its own sake. YOU are part of the society, so remember that what happens to YOU should always matter. It sounds like atlas city is bordering on a Utopian model. There are plenty of examples of why this does not work. Technology may make it possible in the future, but not now.

I cannot tolerate laziness. It is a cancer to every living thing. Best of luck to you all. I will go and peruse other ways of bettering this world for myself and others. I am not going to be a slave for some fat lazy slob so incapacitated by his own sloth that he cannot muster the energy to help himself, let alone others. That doesn't sound much different than the system we live in now.

jrg24 wrote:


You do not understand how this city will work, you are jumping to conclusions without doing any research, obviously in a transitional city everyone will be expected to pull their weight or be asked to either leave or pay hotel rates. but the day will come when machines do all the manual labour and people will be free to do what they want instead of some boss, if they choose to do nothing, no-one else will lose anything because of it, but that day is a long way off.



Please read the zeitgeist forum (link above) before jumping to unsubstantiated conclusions, we are not trying to create the borg collective.

In a transitional city everyone will have duties which will be expected to be fullfilled, there will not be room for too much free loading without significantly hurting the system.

The concept of a full RBE, as steve has pointed out, is that with technology applied to its fullest extent, the world will function without EVERYONE working. This does not mean that everyone will be lazy. If someone were to be lazy, that is there loss and their waste of their own life and will not be a detriment to you or anyone else.