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TOPIC: Geothermal

Geothermal 1 year, 11 months ago #2777

  • ChaseD702
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"According to the National Renewable Energy Laboratory, Nevada ranks second in geothermal resources among the lower 48 states." (NVenergy.com,6/2010)

Geothermal power plants can range from fractions of a megawatt to dozens of megawatts (based on plants already in NV). The USA average usage is 12,000 kWh per year, up from around 8,900 kWh in 2000. We are quite above the national average by statistics found in the links below (about 11,800 kWh in 2009), and we pay more per kW then a majority of states as well. Not fair when you consider summers in the West. We would die without AC. I'm usually not one for reports, but some of these stats were very interesting to me and I had to point out numbers that make these issues easier to understand.

So assuming those stats are fairly constant (we will use more energy efficient tech, but likely have more tech luxuries per person then is average right now) we can look at about 59,000,000 kWh (59,000 mWh) per year. Now I often make mistakes with the units when converting these things so if I did I appologize. I think, with these numbers and the solar panel usage we plan to have, there is a decent chance we can run the entire city with a geothermal plant. Of course, the area would have to be surveys to see how much power can be dirived from it. It may even produce enough extra we could sell the rest to nearby power stations at a fraction of the cost, making money for the city and undermining the utility monopoly.




Other interesting links:
www.americaspower.org/The-Facts
papundits.wordpress.com/2010/01/30/household-solar-power-dont-believe-the-hype/
greenbydesign.com/2009/02/25/energy-at-the-bottom-line/
"A Dream you dream Alone, is a Dream you dream Alone; But a Dream you dream Together becomes Reality." Raul Seixas

Re:Geothermal 1 year, 10 months ago #3117

  • ChaseD702
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More info on geothermal heating (not to be confused with geothermal power plants)

www.consumerenergycenter.org/home/heating_cooling/geothermal.html

“As a rule of thumb, a geothermal heat pump system costs about $2,500 per ton of capacity. The typically sized home would use a three-ton unit costing roughly $7,500. That initial cost is nearly twice the price of a regular heat pump system that would probably cost about $4,000, with air conditioning.
You will have to, however, add the cost of drilling to this total amount. The final cost will depend on whether your system will drill vertically deep underground or will put the loops in a horizontal fashion a shorter distance below ground. The cost of drilling can run anywhere from $10,000 to $30,000, or more depending on the terrain and other local factors.
Added to an already built home an replacing an existing HVAC unit, an efficient geothermal system saves enough on utility bills that the investment can be recouped in five to ten years.”

www.energysavers.gov/your_home/space_heating_cooling/index.cfm/mytopic=12640
"A Dream you dream Alone, is a Dream you dream Alone; But a Dream you dream Together becomes Reality." Raul Seixas

Re:Geothermal 1 year, 10 months ago #3118

geothermal heating works very well, i have felt it in action

as for geothermal power, that requires a large initial investment to get working, however it would be an ideal solution for Atlas City's needs

Re:Geothermal 1 year, 10 months ago #3121

  • Nanos
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For electricity from geothermal, this looks the most promising to me that I'm aware of at the moment:

www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=247

> Brewington and his backers believe the eventual production model of
> their 10MW Power Tube can be installed for under $450,000 per megawatt

www.powertubeinc.com

Re:Geothermal 1 year, 10 months ago #3129

lets do some math here...

comparatively speaking, lets assume we can get solar panels for $5 a watt (this is a very unrealistic cheap price)

lets also assume our budget is $450,000

Geothermal: 1,000,000 watts

Solar: 450,000 / 5 = 90,000 watts (and only when sunny)

i would say wind power is even more expensive than solar per watt

so, based upon this (if prices were ideal) geothermal does seem to be the best option.

now...

what if we take this at the 2001 market price of the article

assuming the same $5 price per watt on solar and a now $3,000,000 budget

Geothermal: 1,000,000 watts

Solar: 3,000,000 / 5 = 600,000 watts

It seems geothermal is actually a good investment...

Re:Geothermal 1 year, 10 months ago #3135

  • ChaseD702
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Of course, the land will need to be surveyed to potential power output and to make sure it's not too close to faults (which has been proven to cause earthquakes). We will still need to have back-up plans and will likely need a combination of all of the free energy sources.
"A Dream you dream Alone, is a Dream you dream Alone; But a Dream you dream Together becomes Reality." Raul Seixas

Re:Geothermal 1 year, 10 months ago #3142

  • Nanos
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I had pondered myself a rough plan of action to start with solar, as its cheap to power for one person upwards, and easy to add more panels/capacity as you get more people.

At some point (It might be around say 100 people, no real thought has gone into what that number might be!) then rely on combined heat and power systems that burn fast growing timber (Such as willow trees.), as this technology is well understood, fairly cheap and basic, and would allow for larger population sizes. (I'm also thinking multible plants so when one needs to be down for maintence, you still have enough generating capacity to go around.)

Keep the solar part, in case the CHP system fails for emergency backup, as well as say day to day use anyhow. (eg. forest fire wipes out your fuel..)

With geothermal coming along later once you have a large enough population that can afford to fund it, and also build again more than one plant, so when maintence time comes, you still have enough capacity to go around.


From what limited information I have read, geothermal does look price wise promising, and I reckon worth investigating, especially if it can work in many locations, and will be more NIMBY friendly than most other kinds of power generation. (Though I have seen the 'earthquake' argument thrown up against it, so that would need some careless looking into or otherwise one risks green groups opposing it on those grounds. (Much like how they objected against a bio-fuel power station at the end of my road, where as a few years ago they wanted it!)

Wind is not very NIMBY friendly..

I think its important to factor in the NIMBY factor in ones choices, as whilst something maybe technically better, its no use if people object to it and you can't get permission to build it!

Geothermal I see as having good potentional for 24/7 base load generation without needing power storage, little pollution worries (Though someone did say, what about when the powertube leaks and pollutes the local water table.. though my first thought that as it will be 2 miles down or so, I don't imagine offhand much will make it to the local water table, and secondary that the amount of toxic materials (I don't even know if the stuff is toxic!) is likely to be dilluted to such an extent as to not be worth worrying about. But we would need to be sure on the figures there before using that as an effective arguement.)
)

Re:Geothermal 1 year, 10 months ago #3145

  • Nanos
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Example of a working (for the last 20+ years) geothermal plant in the UK, that no one complains about and just hides (Why paint it red for goodness sake!) on an industrial estate..

www.dekb.co.uk/home/images/abp2.jpg

Re:Geothermal 1 year, 10 months ago #3157

  • prometheuspan
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www.ecofriend.org/entry/geothermal-power-plants-an-expensive-way-to-generate-clean-electricity/

thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/2007/04/jefferson_teste.html

www.gordonmoyes.com/2007/01/10/crossbench-comment-better-than-nuclear/

www.answers.com/topic/geothermal-power?cat=technology

www.greentechmedia.com/articles/altarock-breaks-new-ground-with-geothermal-power-918.html

www.technologyreview.com/Energy/17236/

solveclimate.com/blog/20080227/geothermal-cheap-abundant-cheap

www.altenergystocks.com/archives/2007/10/geothermal_the_other_base_load_power.html

peakenergy.blogspot.com/2008/05/engineered-geothermal-power.html

seekingalpha.com/article/76811-geothermal-energy-sources-101

www.smu.edu/geothermal/2004NAMap/2004NAmap.htm

www1.eere.energy.gov/geothermal/geomap.html

geoheat.oit.edu/images/usmap1.gif

pesn.com/2007/01/22/9500449_MIT_Geothermal_Report/Geothermal_Map_USA_2004_hj70.jpg

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5a/Geothermal_heat_map_US.png/800px-Geothermal_heat_map_US.png

thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/images/2008/01/18/geothermal_power_resouces_map.gif

www.utpb.edu/ceed/renewableenergy/texas_geothermal_1.jpg

images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.utpb.edu/ceed/renewableenergy/texas_geothermal_1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.utpb.edu/ceed/renewableenergy/texas.htm&h=977&w=974&sz=876&hl=en&start=20&um=1&tbnid=pSChvCFQN38TsM:&tbnh=149&tbnw=149&prev=/images%3Fq%3DGeothermal%2BMap%2Bof%2BNorth%2BAmerica%26start%3D18%26ndsp%3D18%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN

New Tectonic Source of Geothermal Energy?

volcan42.jpg Geochemists from the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory and Arizona State University have discovered a new tool for identifying potential geothermal energy resources. The discovery came from comparing helium isotopes in samples gathered from wells, springs, and vents across the northern Basin and Range of western North America. High helium ratios are common in volcanic regions. When the investigators found high ratios in places far from volcanism, they knew that hot fluids must be permeating Earth's inner layers by other means. The samples collected on the surface gave the researchers a window into the structure of the rocks far below, with no need to drill.

"A good geothermal energy source has three basic requirements: a high thermal gradient—which means accessible hot rock—plus a rechargeable reservoir fluid, usually water, and finally, deep permeable pathways for the fluid to circulate through the hot rock," says Mack Kennedy. "We believe we have found a way to map and quantify zones of permeability deep in the lower crust that result not from volcanic activity but from tectonic activity, the movement of pieces of the Earth's crust."

Geothermal is considered by many to be the best renewable energy source besides solar. Accessible geothermal energy in the United States, excluding Alaska and Hawaii, is estimated at 90 quadrillion kilowatt-hours, 3,000 times more than the country's total annual energy consumption. Determining helium ratios from surface measurements is a practical way to locate promising sources.

Julia Whitty is Mother Jones' environmental correspondent. You can read from her new book, The Fragile Edge, and other writings, here.
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