Atlas City Project

why are five threads condensed into one place?

those threads don't belong together, i made them different threads for a reason.

If you can't respect that then I definitely need to find some better place to be.

Well seeing as Chase is the moderator for this forum, talk to him about it.

ah...right.. thats what i'm guessing i'm doing.

on the other hand i'm ready to just shrug and move on.

this isn't meeting my needs, this isn't working for me.

there will be no more new models or pictures until and unless i have people working on the ones that already exist.

is there a point even, at all, to sharing the models when so far not one person has ever opened a model or added a single detail to one?

I might as well be trying to organize third graders into saving the world,
at least they would not instantly assume that because they are doing a,b and c that they then don't have to be responsible for d-z.

Not only that, But i am pretty sure by now they would actually be using sketchup and asking me for simples to help them draw their own models.

I have never encountered in all my life such a promising and yet pathetic log jam.

So much potential, so much possibility- but it appears to be all an illusion,
a mirage, one more temptation for me to waste my time instead of getting work done.

If the answer to my complaint is to pile 5 threads into one thread then thats pretty much it right there.

I keep punishing myself to try to have faith and i keep coming up with the same answer.

In another decade or two, you guys might be ready for me. Then again, probably never.

Yes, I condensed them. They are a project of yours, not Atlas's. I left them up out of respect, but see no reason in a half dozen new threads cluttering up the forum that have a separate purpose.

no, they WERE demonstration explorations generated with the intention of
giving you all a sense of how it could go without threatening your sense of
process by calling it Atlas City.

NOW they are nothing but wasted time.

Hang in there... so much work and it is easy to get frustrated but hang in there, progress is being made in the order it needs to be in and that is coming soon!!

I agree with Brett.

Prometheus, I understand your frustration, from an outsiders viewpoint on the Conceptualization Committee, although you have been doing the majority of the designs, there has been plenty of discussions between you and everyone else.

There is no reason to get frustrated or angry over this, it is a simple waste of energy to do so.

Stop being dramatic about actions taken by others, as here, they will always have the right intentions (well, almost everyone), nor will yelling at everyone, saying that you are leaving is going to effect us at all. I'm sorry, but it's not like we have a gun to your head and telling you to stay. Work in Atlas Initiative Group is purely voluntarily, you may come and go as you please. If you are going to leave, don't make a dramatic exit.

I'm not making a dramatic exit, i am stating the terms and conditions of my participation.

I'm interested in open source collaboration, design process, where people other than myself actually open the models I generate, paint them, import components in to decorate them, and in general, improve upon my work.

If that can't happen here then this is a waste of time. If every time I try to run you guys through a transition plan my threads are spliced together, that also denies me the ability to be helpful in that way.

In short, this isn't working. When and if it does get to working, drop me a line.

Any one of you could actually get into those models if you so choose. You just don't choose.

I don't choose to be somewhere that is thus a dead end for what I want to be doing.

I'm not being dramatic, I'm being straight up and in fact exorbitantly patient.

Its time to grow up in a hurry, because the world is not full of highly competent people who are enormously patient with people who choose not to be.

There is nothing merely dramatic about the simple observation that any organization with the stated mission to design a whole city, whose participants refuse to engage in serious research, and who refuse to engage
in bothering to open up and work on models- is a pipe dream and a childs game that is doomed to failure in the real world. I don't need any new hobbies.

What I am doing is putting my foot down, and demanding a minimum of actual
reciprocative work. And the response is on your side to see me as being dramatic.

Thats not the answer, and its triply not the answer I was looking for.

Do you know whats nice about skyscraper city or cyburbia? I can post full size images, or DWG files directly to the forum. I don't have to scale down and I don't even have to post images, i could just make the drawing available on that page.

Thats programming competence which this site should have, and doesn't.

You should check them out. SkyscraperCity has a collaborative city which makes everything going on here look like a log jam.

No, they aren't thinking through anything much more than "pretty looking."
But at least 10 different people are creating models which then go into a larger model. Real collaboration.

Eggsworth had the right idea on that. You guys need to go find these groups and convince the participants that merely pretty isn't as interesting or as challenging as full on thinking it through.

But then the next problem ensues. You don't know how to think it through.

You don't have anything here to attract such people back, you have never gotten your act together well enough to list design considerations or philosophy, and focusing on the near term you have more or less neglected a full scale transition plan, so you have skyscrapers featured on the main site page but the appearance i the forum of only being interested in buildings 3 stories tall.

In short, nothing about your (atlases) act is together except the fact that you/they have a website.

It would take a week or two to pull it together assuming each of you put in an hour a day. But you won't do that.

It makes zero sense for me to continue, its as if you have all subliminally decided that this is a pipe dream and a hobby and have decided not to even take your selves seriously.

> I have never encountered in all my life such a promising
> and yet pathetic log jam.

Oh I have!

Here is believe it or not, one of the least like that places.

Thats not to say things cannot be improved.

And I see nothing wrong with you pointing out that more effort needs to be made.


> I'm being straight up and in fact exorbitantly patient.

Mostly yes, though could do with more patience perhaps.

My time working with folk I have noticed that most folks level of progress is far below my own, and one of the big reasons for this is available time. (I don't know if you have a 9 to 5 job or not, but I assume you probably don't, or like many, your have a lack of time to spend on your hobby.)

As my time is now far more limited than it used to be, I'm hitting those issues myself, that I want to do more, but even working every hour I get, and sleeping perhaps 4 or 5 hours a night, I'm still finding that day to day choors like shopping, unblocking the drain/etc. take up far too much time than I would like.

As such, a realisation that even if people want to help, the actual output your see from people will be very little most of the time.

Thus tons of patience really helps a lot.

Thats not to say it doesn't hurt to remind people of the need to work harder..


> What I am doing is putting my foot down, and demanding a minimum of
> actual reciprocative work.

Nice in theory, doesn't work so well in practice I find.

Which is why, most of the time I'm working on my own..


Sadly your see even less of me around here for some time, as I've had to save money by cutting down on my internet connection capacity and go with the cheapest package I can find, as a consquence my bandwidth is extremily limited and only really available for income generation solutions, so I can afford more bandwidth!

As such, your only see me mostly around very low bandwidth communication solutions, such as:

www.rbose.org IRC

Or my own forum/chat.


I do truly feel your pain over this issue, and have penciled in on my todo list various posts of yours to spend time on, when I have time. But I have to pritiose this with keeping a roof over my head, so its a constant juggle, as such, I'm not everywhere doing everything I would like to do.

I'm saying that your contribution here is invaluable, and I wish I could do more to help right now.

So do try and pop in from time to time to see if people are less busy, and if possible, find a project or two you can work on your own with, so you don't have to suffer the problem of everyone else being too slow for you.

nanos, well spoken.

in all honesty, most of us are/were/have been working 40 hours a week,
and this week my 40 hour a week job is being replaced with school.

Time is really the biggest issue in regards to getting this project rolling asap

What it comes down to is whether or not it can or can't fly. If people have
made the decision not to participate in certain ways because they don't have the time, then the simple grim reality is that it can't fly.

Thats not anything other than the harsh reality.

Its simply ludicrous to imagine that we can treat this as a hobby, that we can redesign civilization without doing serious research, without knowing things like zoning, without being willing to spend time inside of the models.

In short its just like a bum on the corner, begging for my spare change. No matter how much I give it will never be enough because hes not willing to put his life in order.

I'm sorry for him and his life circumstances. And maybe I can tell hes brilliant, and maybe i can tell that in different circumstances he might have really had some things to give society.

But it makes no sense to throw my energy into a black pit, just because I feel sorry for them or to throw my time and energy away just because I see the value of what thus becomes only a pipe dream.

I will again say what is obvious. It is not true that there is nobody here who can manage to get into the models. Everyone here could do it. Everyone chooses not to.

The end.

That choice dooms Atlas city to be only ever an adolescent day dream.

It is a choice, and it is a choice everyone makes willfully and consciously.

Nobody can say that it isn't a choice. Nobody can say they don't have a computer or that their computer can't handle sketchup. Sketchup is a low impact and portable program suitable for lap tops.

Nobody can say they don't have time. Fine, they have only 30 minutes a day to spare. In that time they could have gotten into the model and done 20 things to it. They didn't make that choice.

In short I know what all of the excuses are and they are easy to come by. They are all equally lame and equally pointless.

Yes, its true I have full time to devote to saving the humans. No, its not true that i'm interested in spinning my wheels somewhere where all of my work is just tossing pearls to swine.

If all you have is a hobby and a pipe dream, its easy to come here and spend your half hour and get your fix. If you know its never going to come together because you never intend to make it come together, then everyone can make believe together happily and we can all wistfully glaze our eyes over and wait for "one of these days" to come, - knowing full well on some deeper level that it never will and never can because we never put into it what it would really take.

Thats cult mind. Its nothing more than seeking solace and comfort, and imagining a better possible world as a form of entertainment escapism.
Its delusional, its orwellian double think, and its NOT building a real and living City.

I'm not interested in cult mind. I'm not interested in pipe dreams. I'm not interested in glazing my eyes over inside of make believe.

Its time for Atlas City participants to snap out of it, and wake up.
Otherwise they will lose my participation.